Posts by Disillusioned JW

54

Do you think the big A will come after Russia invades Ukraine?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

any takers?

.

Disillusioned JW

Hi TD, thanks for your replies to me. Yes I do know that the Jews (including Bible writers) had a very negative view of idols (graven images), but I don't recall of the Bible calling such images whores. The images weren't thought of as having sex with anyone (except maybe some who used/worshipped idols thought that in rare cases the idols turned themselves into living fleshly goddesses and had sex with a human worshipers of them), though some of the presumed living goddesses (represented by the images) were thought of as having sex with humans. Maybe some Jews referred to some of the images of goddesses as whores for that reason. Likewise, I know that the Bible (in words attributed to Yahweh) sometimes figuratively described worship of other gods as acts of fornication (in a spiritual sense) and I think some prophetic books of the OT Bible sometimes referred to the nations of Israel and/or other nations as prostitutes. But I don't recall the OT referring to a pagan goddess as a prostitute. But in most respects I don't think like an ancient Jew and that might explain why I am puzzled that Rome and Dema Roma were thought of as being whores by ancient Jews.

At least according to what I have read, Athena and Minerva in Greko-Roman myths were not considered as whores by the Greeks and Romans. It looks to me that the image of the Roman coin showing a goddess with a scepter appears to have a small garment (perhaps a bikini style top) covering both of her breasts and something covering the upper parts of her legs (though perhaps not her pelvis/pubic region). [Update: maybe in the image on the coin her right breast is uncovered, but it was not an idea I had prior to reading your reply to me, except that the engraving is not of high enough resolution/clarity for me know some of the details I am seeing.] Furthermore, to me it does not convey the idea of her being a prostitute, since I am aware of the ancient Greek idea of fierce warrior Amazon women with one breast uncovered while fighting men.] Furthermore, you say the coin uses the motif of justice (and thus not that of prostitution) in its depiction of Dea Roma.

But even if she were depicted as totally naked, that wouldn't mean the coin was depicting her as a prostitute, since even the Greek and Roman statues of male gods are often depicted as totally naked and yet those gods were not considered by Greeks and Romans as gigolos/prostitutes (though some of those male gods were considered adulterers).

34

Re: Use of revised New World Translation

by pixel in

this letter will be read this week.

you read it here first!.

re: use of revised new world translation .

Disillusioned JW

I noticed that the silver (or gray) covered 2013 revised edition of the NWT looks considerably thicker and longer than the regular size (including leather covered) editions of the 1984 NWT. Why is that since the 2013 edition doesn't have nearly as many footnotes as the 1963 compilation Large Print (Student's Edition) nor the 1984 With References Edition (which included extensive footnotes of alternate readings and renderings). Is the 2013 edition using thicker paper than the earlier editions of the NWT? The prior editions (other than the ones printed prior to the 1951 revision of the 1950 'NT') used Bible paper (India paper?) instead of the type paper used in most books.

Does the 2013 revised edition of the NWT come in any colors (of the cover) besides the silver/gray color?

34

Re: Use of revised New World Translation

by pixel in

this letter will be read this week.

you read it here first!.

re: use of revised new world translation .

Disillusioned JW

Today I read the https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20151215/nwt-bible-2013/ web page called "The 2013 Revision of the New World Translation" and I am very impressed with what it says! The types of changes mentioned are ones which the NIV and NSRV Bibles (and some other modern translations of the Bible) already include, such as having "Proverbs, Song of Solomon, and many chapters of the prophetic book" in prophetic format. Also consider the following (from the above mentioned web page) which says how a translation of a portion of the text of the Dead Sea scrolls (which agreed with the Greek Septuagint) was incorporated in the new edition of the NWT.

'For example, at 2 Samuel 13:21, the Greek Septuagint contains the equivalent of the words: “But he would not hurt the feelings of Amnon his son, because he loved him, for he was his firstborn.” Earlier versions of the New World Translation did not include these words because they are not in the Masoretic text. However, the Dead Sea Scrolls do contain these words, which are now included in the 2013 revision.'

For more than 10 years I have refused to obtain any WT book that is copyright after the year 2006 (since I stopped considering myself a JW in the year 2007), but now as a result of reading the above web page I have decided to obtain a copy of the 2013 Edition of the NWT. I am also reading more of the online Study Edition of the NWT. I like the reading style and new features (such as summaries and footnotes) of the 2013 and Study editions of the NWT.

I am no longer concerned about the 2013 NWT's exclusion of the exclusion of John 8:1-11 and other textually weakly supported passages of the Bible. After all, I can still read them in my copies of the pre-2013 editions of the NWT, and furthermore I rarely those passages anyway.

47

JWs don’t use the apocryphal, yet source them

by Anony Mous in

so a quick little note about a few things that i recently learned.

if you ever had the yellow book of bible stories, there was the story of enoch, also repeated in other watchtower publications, about the angels fathering giants and being a menace on earth.

now if you look at the nicean bible, which is the wtbts selection of the bible, it mentions enoch twice and only has a very brief passage about nephilim and ben elohim.

Disillusioned JW

Thanks Anony Mous. What are some of the books you have in mind which "... explore the archeological evidence of the Judaic traditions that eventually become Christianity ..."? Do they include the books by Earl Doherty about his version of the Christ myth theory in which Jesus did not exist as a historical person? Do the books you have in mind also include a book published by American Atheist Press called Bart Ehrman and the Quest of the Historical Jesus of Nazareth: An Evaluation of Ehrman's Did Jesus Exist?? Do you believe that pre-first century CE Greek speaking Christians (at least some of them) were calling themselves Chrestians instead of Christians and that the term "Christian" (instead of "Chrestian) was not used in NT manuscripts till after 300 CE?

The idea that Christianity had existed in some form by ~100BC makes it easier to understand how it could be well established by ~50 CE. In contrast, the idea that it came into existence at ~ 30 CE in Galilee and/or Judea makes it hard to understand how it could be well established by ~50 CE in Rome.

Your idea that the "... oldest known Pauline letters ... date back to ~30CE ..." is an idea I had never read before. That is because numerous theology books I have (not merely WT ones but high quality influential ones written by people of 'Christendom' [Catholics and Protestants] with degrees in biblical theology) say the first canonical NT letter of Paul was written in about the the year 51 AD (CE). Perhaps began teaching Christianity in ~30 CE but didn't write his first letter to a Christian congregation till ~50 CE, or perhaps no copies of his earliest Christian letters managed to get into the canonical New Testament Bible.

54

Do you think the big A will come after Russia invades Ukraine?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

any takers?

.

Disillusioned JW

Hi pistolepete, I watched the Fox news video but I didn't see an answer to my question in it. However, I heard the person interviewed in say that: (1) the USA has 200 National Guard USA troops in the Ukraine; (2) the USA never never said they would never use nuclear weapons, since they needs to keep all options on the table (including using nuclear weapons) while negotiating with other countries; (3) that the USA should keep all options on the table why negoiating with Russia about the Ukraine. Thus, the one interviewed is saying that the USA should keep the option of going to war with Russia and he pointed out the USA already has troops in the Ukraine, but he didn't say that the USA would go to war with Russia. The USA might have the 200 troops in the Ukraine as a deterrent to Russia invading what is left of Ukraine.

Yesterday I read news saying that Russia has announced they are withdrawing some of their troops from the border with the Ukraine. Maybe the efforts of the USA are thus succeeding in preventing an invasion by Russia and and are succeeding in preventing a war.

47

JWs don’t use the apocryphal, yet source them

by Anony Mous in

so a quick little note about a few things that i recently learned.

if you ever had the yellow book of bible stories, there was the story of enoch, also repeated in other watchtower publications, about the angels fathering giants and being a menace on earth.

now if you look at the nicean bible, which is the wtbts selection of the bible, it mentions enoch twice and only has a very brief passage about nephilim and ben elohim.

Disillusioned JW

Correction: I made an error when I said 'Sea Breeze, I notice you use the term "Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs" instead of the term "Testimony of the Twelve Patriarchs" ...'. I meant to say 'Sea Breeze, I notice you use the term "Testimony of the Twelve Patriarchs" instead of the term "Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs" ...'.

Further information: The vast majority of scholars writing about the Christian era copies of the "Testimony of the Twelve Patriarchs" say that the very Christian sounding sections of that book (sections that sound nearly identical to NT wording and which also don't appear in the OT Bible) are additions by Christians to what originally was written only by non-Christian Jews.

8

The Left and Present Truth

by neat blue dog in

add yet another jw similarity to the list:.

they say now the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth is a matter of weeks.

things like the effectiveness of masks and the vaccine, the origin of covid-19 in a lab, clinton spying on trump, the existence of a pedophile ring for the elites and more, things branded as conspiracy theories have been proven true.

Disillusioned JW

I have noticed the news media sometimes (such as on the PBS New Hour) repeating the exact news footage segment several months apart, while portraying the repeated news as if it is new news. I have also noticed some content in science news reports on the internet being repeated years later, tough reworded. It appears they are recycling content in order to have sometime to say, but also to inform those who didn't read it the first time and to remind those who forgot it.

47

JWs don’t use the apocryphal, yet source them

by Anony Mous in

so a quick little note about a few things that i recently learned.

if you ever had the yellow book of bible stories, there was the story of enoch, also repeated in other watchtower publications, about the angels fathering giants and being a menace on earth.

now if you look at the nicean bible, which is the wtbts selection of the bible, it mentions enoch twice and only has a very brief passage about nephilim and ben elohim.

Disillusioned JW

BC literally means "Before Christ". smiddy3, do you think there were Christians 100 years before Christ was born, or you believe Christ was born about 100 years before the conventional date of his birth year? Or, if you don't believe in a supernatural Christ, do you think there were Christians about 100 years before the year that the NT Bible says (or implies) Christ was born? If you mean the latter, I think you might be correct in that view.

8

The Left and Present Truth

by neat blue dog in

add yet another jw similarity to the list:.

they say now the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth is a matter of weeks.

things like the effectiveness of masks and the vaccine, the origin of covid-19 in a lab, clinton spying on trump, the existence of a pedophile ring for the elites and more, things branded as conspiracy theories have been proven true.

Disillusioned JW

neat blue dog, I am a far left person who does not say (nor define) that "the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth is a matter of weeks". Where do you get the idea that all (or even most) people of the left say such or have such a definition?

Most of you writers in general in this topic thread, what category of left people do you non-left people (I don't want to call you "right" people, since many your stated ideas on certain topics are very wrong to me) consider to be elites? I ask that since you people seem to be excluding highly accomplished people in the following categories: scientists, inventors, scholars, athletes, actors/actresses, and most self-made billionaires who started their own companies. From what I heard in television a few years ago, you non-left people seem to be exclusively using the word "elites" the way the former President Trump did in his televised statements at rallies. Did you folks obtain that specialized unflattering usage of the word "elite" from him?

In some of your statements you non-left wingers seem to be speaking a different language (or in code) than I. In many of the ideas you non-left wingers write about in your posts on this site it like you are living in a different world (an alternate reality Earth in a universe parallel to mine) than my world (my Earth). You ideas are so alien (as in not from my world/reality) to me. In many cases it is thus hard for me to figure out how you folks get such ideas.

I wish for us (not just those on this forum) to reach agreement on a number of topics (in order to discern/discover what are truths and for society to make much greater progress), by being open minded enough and by carefully considering the ideas of each other, but I don't know if such is possible. Some of you right winger folks (not jsut ones on this site, but also ones I met in person 'face to face') even seem to have a different idea of the meaning of the word "consensus" which you seem to consider to be the only meaning of the word, not recognizing that in certain contexts it means something else.

Some of you even claim that "practically everything you read or hear through traditional media is now a lie", whereas in my world in the reality which I experience the following is what I personally observe to be the case. Practically everything I read or hear through traditional media are truths, or at least in the sense that: (1) what the media reporters (and/or the ones writing scripts for them) sincerely believed to be truths (at least in the sense of reporters believing the ones reported on actually said what they are reported to have said), and (2) what many of those speaking (such as scientists, doctors, and ordinary people) to the reporters considered to be truths.

47

JWs don’t use the apocryphal, yet source them

by Anony Mous in

so a quick little note about a few things that i recently learned.

if you ever had the yellow book of bible stories, there was the story of enoch, also repeated in other watchtower publications, about the angels fathering giants and being a menace on earth.

now if you look at the nicean bible, which is the wtbts selection of the bible, it mentions enoch twice and only has a very brief passage about nephilim and ben elohim.

Disillusioned JW

Correction: In my prior post please feel free to ignore the fourth paragraph and the second to the last paragraph since it is redundant. I had meant to delete them after editing the post but I ran out of time to delete those paragraphs.